Short Box Classic: An Interview with Thomas Tenney about Marvel Force Works, Gene Colan, and Creepshow

Veteran comic artist: Thomas Tenney (Marvel, DC, Creepshow) needs our help! Thomas and his family are at risk of homelessness, and he’s relying on family and friends for help. A GoFundMe page has been created to help Thomas at this link: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-artist-tom-tenney-and-family.
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In honor of Thomas Tenney, this week's episodes is a Short Box Classic! Let's take it back to March 2020, and revisit an interview with the celebrated comic artist: Thomas Tenney, co-creator of Marvel's Force Works. Tenney is an open book as he recalls stories from his extensive career, being mentored by the late great Gene Colan, drawing for AC/DC, working on Shudder's Creepshow, and the important lessons he's learned along the way! 

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Transcript

Short Box Classic: An Interview with Thomas Tenney about Marvel Force Works, Gene Colan, and Creepshow - The Short Box Podcast

00:02
Intro music plays

00:30
Yo Shortbox Nation, welcome back to the podcast. How is everybody doing? Hope all of you are feeling good, feeling great. If you're tuning in for the first time, welcome to the podcast. My name is Badr and this is the Short Box Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about comic books with the people that put their blood, sweat, and tears into making them. Today's episode is a Shortbox classic.

00:58
meaning that this one is coming to you from the Short Box Archives, AKA this is an oldie, but a goodie. So if you're new to the show, this is an opportunity to get acquainted with some classic episodes. If you're a long time listener, well this is consider this like a reintroduction to some of my favorite episodes, to some standout interviews, or maybe some things that you might've missed. This is an interview that I originally recorded and released back in March, 2020. So smack dab in the middle of, of COVID at the onset of the lockdowns.

01:26
So this particular interview, which I did with Thomas Tenney, he's a celebrated comic book artist that has worked for DC and Marvel, and most notably, he co-created Marvel's Forceworks team. He's worked directly with legends like Gene Colen, he was actually mentored by the late great Gene Colen. Thomas has illustrated stuff and done projects for ACDC, and I believe at the time of this recording, he was working on a project or wrapping up a project for Shudder as they were relaunching Creepshow into a TV show.

01:55
So he's been around, he's seen a lot, he's learned a lot, he's got stories for days, and during the interview, he was an open book when it came to sharing stories about his life and his professional career in comics. And I actually had an opportunity to meet him in person, I believe like a year or two after doing this interview, when things started opening up, he was doing a signing at my local comic shop at Gotham City Limit. So I had a chance to meet him in person, and he couldn't have been nicer. He was like, his kindness is just something I remember.

02:24
And, you know, I've had an opportunity to interact with him online here and there, and he's just an overall great guy. Which makes the next thing I'm going to say a tad difficult to say. And it's a big reason why I decided to bring this episode back to the forefront and choose it as this week's short box classic. Thomas Tenney needs our help. In 2017, he was diagnosed with COPD. It's a disease that has no cure. It limits Thomas physically. He can still do his art, but not as easy as it used to be. And his medications are now a daily necessity.

02:53
We're talking about health insurance and medicine in America, so they are extremely costly. He has fallen on hard times. This is unfortunately a position that a lot of comic artists and those who have dedicated their lives to this art form and doing comic books find themselves in later in life. They dedicate their entire lives and their craft to learning this art form and making comic books what they are and helping us enjoy these stories.

03:18
And unfortunately, the hard reality is that there is no pension for comic creator, much less a retirement packet or long-term benefits or any kind of security blanket for people like Thomas to rely on. Thomas and his family are asking for any help they can get. So a GoFundMe page has been created to help Thomas and his family. I have that link in this episode show notes. I personally donated. And if you're in a position to help, I hope you consider donating too.

03:42
Thomas Tenney is an awesome artist. He's a kind human being. He's done a lot for comics. He's led an interesting life. He's had a full career. And I can't thank him enough for coming on the podcast in the first place back in 2020 and just giving such a great interview. All right, enough rambling, enough shameless plugs. Let's get to the show. Let's get to the interview. Enjoy, all right. I'll catch you guys sooner than later. Take care of yourselves. Read a good book and continue to make mine and your short box. Peace.

04:09
the updates are out of the way, how about we get to the main reason why you're all tuning in today? Short Box listeners, I am very excited to introduce our guest Thomas Tinney, a well-established comic book artist who has a professional track record that spans across your favorite comic book companies like Marvel, DC, and Image, working on titles like West Coast Avengers, Forceworks, Legion, DC Showcase, Youngblood, and more. He's also worked on comic adaptations based on popular sci-fi franchises like Robo Tech and Terminator, and contributed artwork for ACDC.

04:38
And let's not forget that he's currently attached to Shudder's Creep Show TV series. I could go on about his accolades, but I think this is a good moment as any to say, Hi Thomas, thank you for joining us today. Thanks for having me. Thomas, how is an established comic artist like yourself been staying busy lately? Well, everything's kind of confusing at this time, but at the same time, I've got a lot of irons in the fire.

05:04
I'm currently in the initial stages of working on a project with a Hollywood director. I can't talk about it yet, but we're getting stuff done, character sheets done, and everything like that. It's been keeping me very busy. It's a good thing. Here at The Short Box, we love exclusives and subtle hints too. So thanks for that. This one, I think a lot of fans will get a real big kick out of. This is something that we've been discussing for a little bit.

05:34
I'm glad it's finally coming together. Awesome, I can't wait to see it. So as I mentioned in the intro, there's a variant cover of Force Works Number Two, featuring your artwork coming out this Wednesday. For those of our listeners that maybe are not up to date, Force Works is a series that you personally had a hand in creating when it made its debut in the July of 1994, along with writers Dan Abnet and Andy Lanning, and of course, Inker Ray Garcia.

05:58
What was your reaction when you learned Marvel was relaunching the series? And I mean, how does it feel to be contributing a new cover to the same comic you helped launch almost 16 years ago? Oh yeah. Well, just last year was our 25th anniversary of the release of a Force Works. So it was kind of interesting because I had just gone down to the big horror convention down in Tampa for a spooky empire and talking about Creepshow and Creepshow was on a shutter.

06:27
And I found out about here's Forceworks coming back with Forceworks 2020. So I reached out just to let the guys at Marvel know I was really excited about it. I'm glad to see it was coming back. And next thing I know is I'm talking to Ricky Perton and Darren Shan about doing a cover for the book. And I was like, you know, this is great. And Darren's such a good editor. He was like, look, go ahead and do what you want. You want to do new team, old team, what do you want to do? And I was like, oh, I got to do an home.

06:56
homage to the old team. So that was really fun to do that. So it's been great. And Marvel's been really good about stuff. I love working with Marvel again. It's always interesting to see how things change over the years. You know, and I had a question regarding, you know, especially you having worked for Marvel prior to its purchase by Disney and now doing business with them recently. I mean, what's some of the differences regarding the process for doing work as an artist?

07:23
Well, back in the day, of course, we always did things traditionally. You know, it was FedEx on your door, hurry up and get them out there and send them out. The pages out as quick as possible as soon as you knock them out. And everything's such, you know, it's electronic age, so everything is digital. And I still work traditional. So it's like I'm working and stuff and I'm scanning it and I'm trying to get it done and sending it to them and it's like, it's a quicker process to get everything done. I think the, the whole thing about it is.

07:53
with the colors, you know, keeping in mind now we've got such different ways to do colors than we had back then. You always have to keep that in mind. And I, one thing about Forest Works was the detail was important to me about Forest Works. So you got to give a little more room for the colors to shine now than I think back then. You know, speaking about, you know, the details.

08:17
I was going back through some of those issues. Luckily, they're on the Marvel Unlimited app. And man, you crammed a lot of just imagery. There was no room for... I mean, man, you filled the panels out. I mean, you really, I felt like you put your heart and soul into it and you made it a comic book of value, in my opinion. I mean, the amount of things that just caught my eyes flipping through some of these issues,

08:44
it was a lot of personal media ash can it was a question of how we would do it uh... today i came with a different kind of local try to fill out if it was going to be more traditional kind of you know i don't think more open style and i had thought to myself you know this book's got to be different after talking to can add that any landing they had such a a focused perspective and they they were so focused on this book

09:12
create something different. And then I went back to my influences of Gene Colin and Flip Adrelie. And I thought, okay, you know what, I'm just going to go with this European style that I enjoy so much. And I just started, kept going with the details, putting in little plushies in the back. There was little things that were people like 25 years later going, I didn't notice there was an Iron Man plushie sitting on the cushion back there. And I was like, yeah, there's little things in there. But it was just a...

09:39
A question, keeping the readers interested in every panel. We just wanted it grittier than the Avengers had been. And that was our whole thing. And that meant giving the art a certain kind of look. I just felt for this book, we had to break away from tradition. And I think you definitely executed that well. Because flipping through it, this is a very grimace-looking Iron Man. And I love the way you portrayed Spider-Woman. I forgot what cover it was, but there's one where you know her.

10:08
Her costume is like tattered and she's like in this really badass action pose on the cover. Yeah, well it was like trying to get Iron Man to be... Because I had worked on Robotech, which was anime. And I kept thinking about how the animation artists were doing that style with the glare and the tones and the metal. And I wanted to do that with Iron Man because he, you know, Iron Man had to be...

10:37
to him and I just thought you know let's throw a little bit of this kind of anime shine to Iron Man and take him out of that traditional look for a second and see what it looks like and that was how that started to go and then uh Nell Yontoff our editor had sat down and we were trying to figure out what to do with the inking on it and Ray Garcia had come from a different world of it it was kind of like Alfino Alcaldes kind of inking, Ernie Chan kind of style and I

11:07
believe it would be a Julia style, which is all about high defined detail. So it was like we had to blend in when they flew me out to New York for, um, New York city Comic-Con and, um, they had me sit down with Ray and me and Ray would sit there and I was like, okay, I'm going to draw this. This is how you would, I would suggest you try inking this. And it was, it was a different world blending our two styles together. It was a good call. So I mean on the topic of, um, you know, the, the, the original series that you worked on,

11:36
in the artwork. What's one that probably has the most meaning to you out of those, you know, first four or five issues? I mean, whether it's for sentimental reasons or a personal favorite. It was the cover of the Forest Works number one. The reason that was so interesting is because when we had laid it out, we had, it was just basically just, Nell was very good with the team. Nell has always been very good. And Nell Yontoff was like, just give me something on a, let's just make it double. You know, let's just make this a double thing.

12:05
we're going to do a pop-up and I was like, how are we going to do a pop-up? And he's like, well, we're just going to do a pop-up. And I was like, Oh boy. And he's like, this is going to be interesting. So even now was like, how, Oh, how the heck we're going to pull this off. So I did the cover and then I had to do the pop-up, but um, Andy Lanning, which a lot of people didn't know he, it wasn't Ray Garcia who inked the pop-up. It was Andy Lanning that ate the actual pop-up art. So we had actually get special paper for the.

12:34
because it was huge, because it had to be die-cut and everything, so it wasn't normal on comic board because of the way it had to be designed. But yeah, Andy Lanning didn't get credit for that, I don't think, but he was the anchor on that, on the pop-up part of it. And Andy's a very, very talented anchor, so it was great for him to have a part in just that alone. But yeah, the cover stood out as important, and you know, the years later, Yahoo! voted the 13th best cover of all time.

13:05
and considering how many comic covers had come before that for Forest Works number one to fall into that, you know, I was like, well, that's impressive. I didn't even think about it like that. But now, you know, I love that cover. Hell of an accolade. Cool story too. So I mean, when you look at your career, I mean, in hearing you talk very highly about your relationship with, you know, Abnett and Landing and Garcia.

13:30
It's safe to assume that you've been exposed to a number of comic making styles from like the Marvel style of things DC's process and of course images way of producing comic books was been your preferred method. Do you have a favorite way of approaching comic books or any of those styles. Well, you know, the thing about it with comics was, you know, I hadn't been able to switch gears so many times from it, you know, the anime with Robotech and stuff like that. So it was all about blending, but I'd always loved

13:58
like that 2000 AD or in a lot of that European stock. So it was a question of, when I got to DC, I had known Archie Goodwin and working with Archie was great because Archie Goodwin was such a good teacher. Not only that, he was very open to trying new things. So when we started doing the fake comic and Archie and I were working on the fake comic.

14:24
But at the same time, I wasn't doing Force Works. So I was working for DC and Marvel at the same time. So it was a question of how do I keep fate from not looking like Force Works, but still keeping the style, you know, without looking too varied. But it came down to deadlines. Because Force Works was a very, to get that much detail in Force Works was very difficult to keep it going. Because I know Ray wasn't gonna kill me a million times.

14:51
I was like, why? Why are you doing this? My hand's cramping, dude. Come on. I was like, just get it done. And Nell was definitely making sure I was staying on tact. He was like, stay on point. Stay on point. And I'll never forget Nell telling me, he goes, I am changing to that table with a dimly bulb. And you are not getting any sleep. Say goodbye to any free time you have. And then when I started doing all that detail, he was like, when do you sleep?

15:21
But it was like then at the time when we gotten into the initial parts of doing Fate, I had designed the character for Fate when I changed him over. And I had sent it to Archie and I had sent it, had so much going and I was, they were like, it was a question of Archie and, and now, and I was like, you know, I had to make a decision of what to do, stick with going with Fate and Forceworks and juggling it or concentrate on Forceworks. So.

15:51
I had my first commitment was to Marvel because they called me. I got hired at Marvel in DC 15 minutes apart. Wow. How does Marvel have that happen? They called me and said, you want a job? It was actually, I was actually also talking to Bob Harris to do a mutant title, the X titles. But then Nell was like, this is going to be a number one. So I was like, okay, you got me on that right there.

16:19
So I basically had to keep concentrating on what style I was going to stick with. But now I figured I'm rolling the dice. I'm going to take the heat either way. If people love this style, fine. If they don't, fine. I'm just going to go ahead and roll the dice with it. Same thing Gene Coleman did. And I guess, you know, kind of sticking to this timeline or this time frame, who were some of the comic artists that inspired you around this time? And how did you go about, I guess,

16:49
differentiating yourself from some of your contemporaries at the time? Well, I think it was when Gene Collins, I had spoken with Gene and Gene had told me, he said, you know, people didn't really care what I was doing. There was people that didn't like what Gene was doing at the time because Gene had a very fluid style and it wasn't traditional. And that was a lot of influence on me because Gene broke the mold in many ways.

17:14
Because back when Gene was hired, they were like, can you draw like Kirby? He was like, no, you want Kirby? Hire Kirby. You got Kirby. You want George Stuska? Dude, hire them. This is me. And so I kind of went into it with that same mindset that Gene had put into me. He had programmed me with that, just be yourself. And don't be like everybody else because when you remember the other guys, you gotta be like yourself, good or bad. They hate you, they'll still be talking about you years later. So just go ahead and do it.

17:44
That is true as ever. And okay, that is some solid advice. And how did Gene Coleman come into your life? Well, it was actually, it was in 1988. I went to a show in Dallas and it was at the end of Robotech and the same show I met Len Wiener and I would, you know, there was no artist at the time really. We just had tables and we were like, pick a seat, sit there and let everybody know who you are really. And Gene and...

18:14
I went to the end of this row and I sat down and I was sitting there just getting stuff out of my arcades and laying stuff out on the table. And so he tapped me on the shoulder and said, can you just move over? Just one seat so we can get a little more room for my husband. And I looked over and it was this very nice lady and she was like, I was like, yeah, sure, no problem. Moved over and then this older gentleman sat down next to me and started pulling stuff out and putting it on the table. And I looked over and I was like, boy, he looks familiar.

18:43
He turned around and smiled at me and said, I'm Gene Coleman. He started shaking my hand. He goes, what do you got there? I started grabbing my stuff off the table. And he's like, oh, I like this. I like that. He goes, here, look at my pencils. I was like, what am I going to see? It's Gene Coleman's pencils. I'm looking at Gene. Yeah, you're a legend, dude. So Gene and I had our relationship started just right there because all fans would come by. Gene would sign some comics and say hello and they'd go off. And then Gene would get right back to the conversation of storytelling and lighting and-

19:13
He was, um, Jean was an incredible guy because I miss him. Cause Jean was a very good guy. He, you know, there's a lot of guys that did take, you know, I was a guy who just came off of doing an anime book and no one had seen my traditional stuff so much. So to have a guy like Jean Cohen pull you under his wing and say, look, here's how you do it and this is what you need to do. And not only just the art, Jean would sit there and talk to me about the business. And.

19:43
navigate in the business and he talked about appearances and what to say and how to conduct yourself as a professional. So Gene was like, he cared so much about the industry and being a professional and always being a professional. That was very important to Gene. So when I drew Iron Man for the first time, an issue.

20:10
uh... market on the issue of iron man it was like you do not iron man he was like i think i figured you would uh... i was i was very cool here but that you wasn't very important to me and our friendship just grew from there so uh... and i i i don't know but i know good words i guess they're pretty

20:32
I mean, I really wanted to make sure that I had a chance to hear your thoughts on Gene Coleman, because during my research and going on your social media, I could definitely tell that he played a large role. I mean, you've posted about him several times and what he's meant to you. So it's really cool to hear the full story and hear you speak about him with such a great light. Yeah, Gene was an important figure, I think, in comics. And I think he was overshadowed some. But I think fans now...

21:02
I had been appreciating his stuff and seeing what Gene meant and just looking at his storytelling and the detail Gene had, his pencils, they were amazing to me. Just to hold them in my hands at times and Gene would just draw something real quick and Gene would say like, look at this room and now think of it in black and white and look at the shadows and see how the shadows play for them. It was just little things like that that Gene would teach you that you don't learn.

21:32
Thank goodness for Joe Kuber's school. I think Joe Kuber's school has been Very good in helping people to learn basics because a lot of people seem like well, I just draw this and it's not that easy Well said and you know speaking about like Artists and just kind of comic book professionals that you know Not only are some of my personal favorites like Gene Colen, but you know, you've worked directly with You know one of my favorite pair of writers in the comic book industry

22:01
Dan Abner and Andy Lanning. I mean, what was it like working with them during your time at Force Works? Dan and Andy were great. They kept me busy and they would give me ideas of what they wanted certain characters to look like or they had an idea. And here was the funny thing, we had gotten to, I forget which issue it was, two or three. And it was supposed to take place in Manhattan.

22:28
And I was like, guys, I'm going to have to run to the library. There was no internet. I have to run to the library and get pictures of New York to draw all these specific locations. And they were like, yeah, yeah, let's see. So they were like, where are you at now? I was in Texas. And they were like, well, just draw what you see around there. Well, right around it. So that's how good they are about, Dan and Andy were always good about working with you to get the story going.

22:55
and they knew how to pace it and it would compliment. You know, they always open, we would always talk on the phone even though they were in the UK and it would cost me a ton of money in phone calls. I didn't know they were in the UK, wow. Yeah, so it was weird, we'd be talking and it's like, I'd get my phone bill and I was like, hey, can we get this covered? Yeah, is that right, this off as an expense? It was like, I definitely, why are you talking so long? I'm just getting done.

23:25
So, I mean, do you still stay in touch or did you ever, did you end up keeping up with their work as they progressed through Marvel? Because I mean, it's, I mean, for me, their name, I mean, I tie it to, you know, the Annihilation series and the things they did for all of the space-themed characters in Marvel like Nova and Guardians of the Galaxy. I mean, they definitely have a big place in my catalog of great writers. I mean, did you end up following their work as they progressed? Oh, yeah, definitely. Because, well, now I had this...

23:52
no new no young talking to you what kind of yet something special uh... now we always seen a praise and now listen on point without getting any he knew these guys were destined for greatness economics as good as they were and i get told talking to do the brilliant of talking to content at the and andy landy just said for brilliance and they knew what they wanted and they had such a good way of

24:19
of composing a story. They were real maestros of comic book storytelling. Well said. Absolutely agree. So with your variant for issue two for this current Forceworks series coming out this Wednesday, and the possibility of you being at Gotham City and then doing signings there, hopefully in the near future, I wanted to talk about your, I guess, like your pull list. I mean, are you collecting any current comics that are out today?

24:49
always going to be, the thing about the new comics is it's so hard to keep up with because everything's always changing. And it's so quick. I'm so used to having teams last a year or two years and it's such a revolving door on it. It's hard to keep up with the stories now. So as much as I try to keep up with them, I'm always going back and looking back at the old stuff. So it's like, I know it's...

25:18
I sound like a dinosaur with that, but I'm always going back and being amazed by reading some of the stuff that Alan Moore wrote. But today, there's a lot of good talent out there. I just always look at it and I think to myself, where is this gonna go? And then all of a sudden, next thing we know, where are we going with this? It's changing. Please. But Matthew Rosenberg, who writes the first works 2020, is a very talented writer. Oh yeah.

25:47
He's awesome. I love what he did with Forest Works. He's an amazing writer. I want to keep with the subject of your most recent work. You've also had a big part in creating artwork for Shudder's recent Creepshow TV series. How close did you get to work with the well-respected Greg Nicotero and his team? Well, the good thing about it, how it came about real quick is that I had worked with Brian Whitten at Image.

26:16
And Brian was the writer on the chapel series that I did the art for. And Brian and I became friends way back then in the mid-90s. And Brian had, I knew Brian was one of those guys. Brian's one of those guys that you knew talking on my phone. It was like his passion for the industry was there, for the entertainment industry. And when he, we talked about stuff and we talked about the art and all this stuff.

26:43
And then Brian had said to me that he'd talked about Creepshow and Brian working with Greg Nicotero on Creepshow. And I was like, wow, I love Creepshow, the movie. And he was like, well, keep that thought in mind. I got something lined up for you, buddy. Yeah. Next thing I know is I'm Brian's extended invitation to take part in it. And I was really excited because not only doing Creepshow, because I love the film and working with Greg, but it's also working with Brian.

27:13
Because he's my friend and Brian is it's like working with a genius and you can sense it So it's he was always a positive influence. Brian's a very positive influence in the entertainment industry So working on it was great and then I do like stuff they send me stuff and I just start drawing stuff for the show and I Didn't want to just draw it I just draw it one time a panel at a time sometimes and send it to Brian and they get him and Greg's input on it because

27:42
We were staying to the retro roots of the easy comic roots and stuff like that. The original roots of Creepshow, working with Greg is amazing. It's just like you can just sit back and watch his brilliance at work. It's crazy. I'm seeing a really good trend that you've had in your career and that seems to be very important role models or just, I need your own words, like just brilliance.

28:11
running into that like between Archie Goodwin, Jean Colon and Brian as well. I mean, it sounds like you've been surrounded by really good just talent and teachers and instructors and just people that you can kind of feed off of. Yeah, I think, you know, some of the guys that I didn't get a chance to work with that were influences were Sergio Aragonis who spent, I forget how many hours he spent at dinner and Sergio would tell me stories. And uh...

28:39
Ben Ween was amazing. Bob Burden I spoke with. There's a lot of guys I spoke to. John Romita Sr. was the first guy really in the comic industry that I got to work with to talk to. John Romita Sr. was the first one to actually take interest in me and then Terry Austin. Wow. Talk about a cosign. That is a major cosign when it comes to comic book legends.

29:03
Yeah, what had happened is I was in rock bands as a teenager growing up. I got into rock bands and rock music and drawing stages and stuff like that. Album covers for my bands. And a friend of mine had said, can you draw like Iron Man for me one time? He did. And he was like, oh, that's great. Friend of mine gave me the Marvel Tryout book. Oh man. Yeah. And I've never drawn this stuff before. Never. So I said there was a penciling and inking section and I...

29:31
submitted both just for the heck of it. And the next thing I knew I was I got a letter for the penciling you're one of the top three finalists and then I was like wow that's amazing I never drew this and then I get another letter you're the top three finalists for the inking. I was like uh-oh thank you for my doing here and then seeing how I'm talking to John Reade Sr. so it was they progressed like that quickly. Wow. You know I'm thinking

29:59
especially doing the research and then you just bringing up Chapel. I wanted to say I was definitely, I came across your work at a very young age. I remember going through my dad's boxes of comics and this is when I was first getting into comic books. Our household was a Marvel household at its finest. But my dad had a few issues, I'm sorry, a few comics of just various, you know, from the image, from Image, some from DC, but it was 98% Marvel. But one of the few books he had from Image was Chapel. And I remember flipping through it.

30:28
and being really impressed by the art. But I mean, I was a Marvel head. I was like, who is this guy? This is not a real superhero. This isn't a Marvel guy. So it's kind of funny now to look back and while I was doing research, and I was like, wait a minute, Thomas Tenney did Chapel? Like, yo, that's got a special place in my heart. I went right from Forest Works. I'd gotten to this point of Forest Works and then I had the invite from Rob Whitefield's Extreme Studios to join them. So it was like, and they were like, well, we're gonna keep you busy,

30:58
in mind, we're gonna get to chapel. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna be doing chapel. So they were throwing me Youngblood stuff to keep me busy until we did chapel. And then I worked with Eric Stevenson and Brian, that's where I met Brian Wynton. So it was like, it was interesting to do that, but it was a different, you know, you get into that Marvel mode and you're used to how Marvel does things. And it was a totally different atmosphere and image because it was more about, it was a lot of free range.

31:27
Marvel ran a tight ship and where Image was more like, you know, we're trusting you to do this. So they gave you, they were like, it was switching a lot of modes. But I went back to Marvel, which a lot of people did now is after I got through working on stuff with Image, Marvel invited me back. So I ended up going to Marvel again because they were doing a rock line of comics with ACDC.

31:56
So, I went right back to Marvel. People didn't even realize it. Because the ACDC comic and the rocker, I never made it out. But I mean, you did have, you did do some work for the, I think, what was it? I know it was the Ballbreaker album, so the 13th album, and you did work for, I think two of your artworks show up in the CD booklet, correct? Yeah, right. Okay. So, I mean, before we had done that, we had done...

32:26
to complete the first issue of the ACDC comic. Huh, okay, and you said that never came out. That never came out, but it was an interesting story, and we had this whole interesting story, and it was great, and I drew the first issue of the ACDC comic, and it was gonna come out from Marvel, and nobody knows exactly the story of what happened. It was either an argument over my rights or who knows. Okay. What stopped the book in the...

32:54
it had already been done. The initial pencils were done for it. And the next thing I know is I'm getting, they're talking about me working for the band. And I was like, okay, yeah, we want you to work for the band. And then I was talking to Marvel at the same time I was talking to East West. Wow. So I was like, okay, who am I working for here? So you're working for both, you're working for the band and you're working for Marvel. I'm like, okay, so.

33:24
Who gets credit? We don't know. We just do it. That's how it ended up going that way. You know, and I've read and heard similar stories when it came to Marvel's licensing at that time. If you look now, it took me a little bit to find exactly where your artwork was at. I didn't know about the cancelled comic, but I think at the time what Marvel was really just licensing, hey...

33:48
Marvel will contribute the artwork. We're not going to really credit exactly what artists it is. Luckily, I was able to find a scanned copy of the booklet on Discogs, and I flipped through each page, and I saw your artwork. Luckily, I could tell from your artist's signature. But I know that that's not a very uncommon discrepancy that many artists at that time had to deal with when it came to the license stuff. Well, the weird part about it is when

34:18
Hard as a rock. And when the CD was released, there was two, a lot of people didn't know, there was two copies of it. There was two different copies of it. There was one that said art by Marvel, the other was art by me. Wow. And so there was like people are like, which one's worth more? And I'm like, people ask me that to this day. I'm like, I don't know. I have no idea which one's worth more. But it was because the label was.

34:46
It's, we hired you, we paid you. So this is, you know, your name goes on it. And then it was like, well, Marvel licensed you. And it was like, so there's two different copies of it out there. And I mean, with you being a musician, uh, at the, you know, yourself, I mean, what did the opportunity mean to you at the time? And I mean, how did, how did your musical talent, I guess, influence your approach on the project? Did it help any, was it a little easier to relate?

35:16
Oh yeah, a lot easier because it was something that I had, that was where I was planning to go with the, if I was gonna do art, it was going to be that. It was going to be working, you know, Derek Riggs kind of, that kind of doing covers for albums. And that was my idea. That was what, if I was gonna do art, that's where I was focused. I wasn't focused on comics, it was art and music. So it was like coming back to what I initially wanted to do. So I was very excited just for the opportunity to work with.

35:45
bands I knew and it's like, wow, okay, I'm doing this again. It was like I kept meeting people in the music industry and they're like, draw me this, draw me that, draw me this, draw me that. I was like, okay, I've got a career in music now. That is cool. Yeah. And you know, one thing that stands out about your work is the attention to independent artists and not just in the field of comics, but also independent music acts. I know that you've co-founded two music companies that help out independent artists.

36:14
So I guess my question for you is what are some common themes or observations you've noticed on both sides of the fence, you know, comic and music? Is there a lot of similarity on how you would recommend a hopeful professional approach to the business side for either or? It was all about marketing. One thing about, I got to sit in a lot of meetings with music between big guys and I learned a lot. And it was about how to market stuff and how to promote yourself.

36:42
And it was the same thing with comics because the one thing I learned from music that was out of my element in comics, because that's always up to the business, was how do you promote yourself and how do you work it. So I kind of used that knowledge that I learned in music with comics. But there was a similarity about how you got, you know, in the music industry, it was like how many butts can you put in a seat? And in the industry, it was like how many issues do you sell? So what do we do to make this sell and get people interested?

37:12
So there was a lot of similarities on that. And I think it was also the similarities of how it was a community. And in the comic industry, there was a community of artists. It was sometimes hard to break into the groups, because it certainly was delegated into groups of this group of Marvel guys, DC, you're not sitting at this table, especially back when.

37:38
And I think it was also a question of that in the industry. You know, you got your independent bands that were sitting here at the clubs, and then you got your big bands playing these giant venues. But how do you get from this to this? How do you bridge that gap? And I noticed a lot of guys were using the same process of, you just got to keep putting stuff out there and just put it in the right people's faces and just be determined. And I think a lot of people are like, no, I'm not getting listened to.

38:05
It's like with the comic industry, you've got to be seen. You've got to get it seen by the right people. So you've just got to be aggressive about it, assertive about it. And so, yeah, there was a lot of similarities in that part. So when you look at your very extensive career, is there a point that you feel comfortable in saying or that you felt like, OK, I made it like this is I am a professional. I do this for a living.

38:35
I am to be respected, I am in the industry. Is there a point that you can pick out where you've had that feeling? And a follow up to that too is what advice would you give your younger self in terms of navigating the comic or even the business as a whole? Well, yeah, I think it was... At the time, I thought I had made it right off the bat out the Rubber Tech because Rubber

39:04
And people didn't realize that it was like, enemy wasn't that big at the time. Robotech really ignited the fuse for what you see today. And I think Robotech deserves that credit for igniting the fuse because people were buying enemy after Robotech. And I thought, well, great. I came on the tail end of the finishing Robotech and then here I'm doing Terminator. Terminator, when I got into the Terminator series, it was falling apart on the, on the,

39:35
So they came in and I actually co-wrote issue two and people don't know that up there here because I wasn't credited with it because we had no writer An issue to we had no writer and it was basically a free-for-all and okay well, I made it here, but then my deadline for insane and I'm not gonna go over the history of now comics But it was when I got to Marvel and this was thanks for British ranking rich ranking my anchor from the brother tech days, Kamiko

40:05
had done what he could do. And he was the one that said, you're going to go to Marvel. And Rich was the one who took my work to Marvel and said, here, look at this. And it was when I had those two phone calls within 15 minutes that I felt that I had made it. Wow. I'd probably feel the same way too. Well, from Robo Tech to Marvel DC. Yeah, it was a jump. But see, at the same time, people weren't going to take. I thought a lot of people weren't going to take.

40:35
because you can get stereotyped. And doing anime art, I was starting to feel like I was Adam West. Yeah. That's not a bad comparison. That one's gonna give me a role. I'm always gonna be Batman. And I wanted to say that your Terminator covers, and for anyone interested, if you just type in the Terminator Now comics, they are fantastic. Some of these covers are absolutely awesome.

41:02
Yeah, Paul Galesi did some work on the covers and he did a cover and Paul's a great artist. He was an incredible artist. But yeah, it was a call by now to do the painted covers. They really were up and down with it about doing the covers, me doing the covers for it because they were like, well, we got all these artists that want to get involved in Terminator. So I was like, well, we'll give them the covers. I'm like, I don't have a problem with that.

41:28
It's fine with me, it's one less thing I have to worry about right now on this tight deadline. You mentioned something about the editorial and Force Works and the cover, first cover, they wanted something big and cool. I feel like those two words kind of encapsulate just your style and for the most part, maybe even your career. It just seems that you've been working on big and cool projects and delivering really big and cool visuals. Well, I've been fortunate.

41:57
I'll just say that I've been fortunate that I've tried to surround myself with good people that are passionate about the industry. And that was the main thing for me was I've always felt it was good to be around people that are always, that have a drive to excel in the industry and just not just leave their name but leave a footprint. And that's, I always look for that in people. And that's what, that's why I look at.

42:25
the people around me and say, well, what are you doing? Or what are you thinking? To this day, I've been in the comic industry this is my 35th year being in the comic industry. And still to this day, I talk to my buddies like Tom Morgan and stuff like that, or Steve Lavigne who did Turtles, a friend of mine. And I talk to these guys and I ask for their advice or their input. Or Dorian Vallejo, who's Boris Vallejo's son is a friend of mine. Oh wow. I talk to these guys. I want their influence.

42:55
I mean, check your ego at the door. And I think that's a good thing for most artists to remember, check your ego at the door, we're a community. You're never bigger than the art, art's always gonna be bigger than you. Well said. So I mean, looking at your 35 years of being in the comic industry, what do you miss most about, I guess, the comic culture from maybe when you started or in the prime of its peak or whatever?

43:22
compared to now and what are you happy that has changed? What I miss is I miss the, I think a lot of it has become, there was a personal touch back then because there wasn't exchanging texts and there wasn't exchanging, you were talking to each other and you could really brainstorm when you were talking to each other. It wasn't so short and brief and I think that's that personal touch that we're all missing.

43:50
And I think a lot of guys today don't understand that because, and I think mentoring has fallen off and I really wish there was more of it. Back then there was a lot of guys, I've spoken to Jack Kirby personally and Stan Lee and Frank Miller. And there was always these guys that were taking interest, even Jack, you know, Jack Kirby, he was, Jack was really nice to me when I was a nobody. And this is Jack Kirby. And I was like, and he's...

44:19
took the time to talk to me and I go, okay, well I ain't got time for you kid. He sat there and spoke with me about art and techniques and I go to shows now and it's just that personal touch seems to be missing and I wish it was there. I do think today, the good thing about it is that the conventions are opening up these artist alleys for people, younger artists to be seen. Oh yeah.

44:46
And I think that's a very, very good thing that these conventions are doing. I know some people say, well, artist style takes away. No, it doesn't. I wish there was artist style back then. Um, I think there's a lot of talented people that are getting overlooked. And I think artists that the artist style gives them a chance to come out and say, look, I'm, I'm pretty darn talented myself. You know, it's hard to be seen with so many people posting stuff on the internet constantly, it's constant barrage of art. How do you stand out?

45:15
How do you get yourself recognized? You could be as talented as forever, but how do I get recognized? And it's all about the things that Gene taught me about marketing and how to get seen. And that's important. And I think the biggest thing, Jim Shooter once told me, he said to me, he goes, kid, I don't care how talented you are, if you don't know storytelling, if you don't know deadlines, you're not coming to the Marvel, you've got to know this stuff. And thank goodness, Diana Shoots.

45:44
over in Jerry J. Vinko over at Kamiko said to me, hey, people are giving you that shot to learn it. We're going to teach you. And they did. So they took a shot and they taught me. And they were, you know, I was outspoken and I'm sure I was hard styling to round up, but. Yeah, I think that's different than that. Things like that was important. That kind of stuff is important nowadays.

46:14
Do you still participate in the conventions and in that whole circuit? Oh yeah, I just don't do it as much as I would like to. It's just because I try to get involved with my significant other, Christina. She's very, she takes care of this stuff for me. So she does. She keeps me from pushing myself too hard because so many years I toured with bands when I was working in music and.

46:40
It took a toll. You know, it's a lot. It took a toll on me. I really, it was, it was not an easy life. So I sacrificed a lot to be on tour and I sacrificed a lot of my personal life to be on tour because I had to. And, um, but I have goals and I want to reach them. So I'm always set on my goals. So it was important for people to always stay focused on your goal and don't let anybody tell you can't.

47:08
You didn't do it. I was a kid from nowhere. Somebody took a chance on me. That's really inspiring Thomas, man. Thank you for sharing that. So in addition to, you know, this variant cover force force coming out, your work with Creepshow, I mean, what else are you working with? Is there any personal projects that you're working with or working on? There's some, I know some, there's some stuff I have with some celebrity friends I'm just speaking with, you know.

47:38
I can't say who because they wouldn't want me to. There's stuff like that. I talk to a lot of people that are outside of the comics industry because there's creative sides to the comics that some of the actors I know and some directors I know that wanna get into comics. So we talk about what we can do and how we can create things. So there's a lot of talk between me and those guys about.

48:04
Let's do something different. Let's do something interesting. Let's try something new. And it's all about creating something new. So I get a lot of stuff thrown at me. I just finished a cover for Tales from Nocturnia with Matt Knowles and Steph Cannon with the band Inferi. Cool. And that's a good band. Again, my music goes back to, that's why I liked working with stuff like that because I worked with a band like Inferi and they're a good group of talented musicians. And

48:34
I work with a guy out of Florida named Nicholas Whitfield, Nick Whitfield, one of the most talented musicians in Florida. And we work on stuff together to get stuff going and come up with new ideas and new creative ways of blending music and art and I'm always interested in stuff like that. I think we have to be creative now. I think it's stale if it doesn't. Absolutely.

49:00
So Thomas, what I normally like to do when it comes to these interviews and then, you know, reaching the end of the show, I usually leave it up to my guest to share one story that they feel is either their favorite or maybe one they haven't shared before. But I really kind of leave it up to the guests to share just a story that they want to share with our listeners. And then I mean, and I'm sure with your extensive career and even some of the names that you've dropped, you know, Stan Lee, Frank Miller, Jack Kirby, Gene Colen,

49:29
Archie Goodwin, Jim Shooter, etc. I'm sure that you've probably got a whole plethora of comic book stories to share, but is there one that you want to go ahead and sign us off with? Okay, yeah, this is one that was really kind of fun and interesting at the same time. This was at a convention, I think it was in 87, and I had met Mike McNola at the convention. Mike was a great guy. And we were outside in the hallway talking and just talking and stuff.

49:56
I forget what happened and Mike went back in or something like that. Anyhow, so I see this massive crowd coming at me and I'm down a hall and I could, you know, I didn't know who it was. I don't know. All I could see was fans and it, it almost part of like the red seat here was Stanley and Stan walks right through the crowd and he comes over to where I was. We were sitting there. And at the time I was smoking cigarettes and Stan had a cigar or something like that. And it's like, can we, is there a way to do this? And I was like, yeah. And then.

50:27
He pulled up in his velvet rope and he came in and he sat down and Stan sat down and he started talking to me. And we're sitting here talking and I thought, oh, I'm talking to Stanley. This is very cool. I'm talking to Stanley. And Stan was like, you got any work on you? I was like, what, right here?

50:56
I mean, he pulled out and Sam has reached in to my case, it's hard pulling out work. And Stan started looking at it and he goes, cool, is this nice? This is nice. And then he starts talking and you know, it's Stan. You know, whatever Stan says, you're just enthralled by. Oh, absolutely, yeah. And finally, one of the guys at the convention comes running up and he says, we're having a charity auction. He saw Stan there. We're having a charity auction. So...

51:24
Is there anything you guys like contribute? And Stan being Stan, it was like, oh definitely, there was nothing around. There was nothing in it. There was no, you know, I had, the person that was with me had taken my R-Case and brought it back into the dealer's room. So, we were talking for such a while. And Stan's looking around, Stan's looking around, and there was an orange in a fruit basket. And Stan picks up the orange and signs it. And I was like.

51:53
And he hands it to me, he goes, sign it. And I was like, okay. And he was like, man, right there, my name sign that. I was like, okay, I'm signing an orange with Stan Lee. And the guys, they volunteered for the show, looking at us like, I guess like we're crazy. But it was Stanley's autograph. And so he goes and he takes the orange and goes running back off down the hallway. And I look at Stan and Stan looks at me and I was like.

52:24
somebody will buy it Stan. And he's like, I don't know. And I was like, I don't know, maybe 50 bucks. And he's like, no, no, no. That thing went for like $500. Get out of here. No, I'm not kidding. And years later, what was so funny is that I was on the orange ship again. Somebody had preserved it. And I was like, are you kidding me? There was a preserved orange. I was- With Stanley's signature. That is, first of all.

52:53
I think you just set the bar very high for stories being told on this show. Two, I was just about to say, oh great, well now there's some fanboy out there with a rotting orange, with Stan and your signature, but I should not be surprised at the level of commitment and dedication from comic book fans and preserving orange. Oh yeah, it was preserved, it was like in a block. It was weird, it was like in a clear acetate block or something like that.

53:23
And I was like, it looked like the Tesserac tube with an orange in it. And I'm like, okay, there's an orange. That's the missing Infinity gym that Thanos needed right there. And the last thing, I remember I saw Stan a few years back before his passing, and I told Stan about it. And Stan looked at me and he goes, I kind of feared it. And he just gave me that...

53:52
That Stanley smile and he patted me on the shoulder, he goes, I told you, aren't you glad you signed it now? He turned around and he sat down and I looked at Stan and he gave me a thumbs up with a smile. And that's my last memory of Stan. Damn, that was beautiful. That was, man, Tom, thank you for that. That was inspiring and hysterical. Yeah, Stan was, I'll never forget, anything I can go away with, that was.

54:22
I'll never forget that smile. That last look with Stan. I appreciate you sharing that, Thomas. I do. And you know what? I really appreciate you taking the time out today to chat with us and letting our listeners get to hear from you and hear your story and all about the great work that you've done for the comic book industry. Oh, man. It is my pleasure. With that being said, Thomas, I do want to go to give you real quick a chance to shout out or plug anything you've got going on, any website or any place that you want people

54:52
uh... to be directed towards uh... i don't think that people just right now instead of the shadow for me i would give a the recognition to the local comic shops yes i would like to start one people to member art because shots are going to be dealing with a lot right now so support your local shops and take care of his dealers uh... i'll get through this but they need your support in any of our than you care

55:22
going to be a difficult time. So let's look out for each other. That's the most important right now. Well said, Thomas. Thank you. And I'll go ahead and echo what you said. A lot of, especially local shops here in Jacksonville are offering curbside pickup. You can give them a call to have them meet you outside. They'll pull comic books still for you. I think a few of them even have online stores that you can place orders and then pick up. They're definitely

55:52
comic books for everyone. So look out for them. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So like I said, main thing I got to say with everybody is take care right now. Be careful, be smart, be wise, and look out for each other. Well said. We're all a community. From here in Jacksonville to Florida, the United States, I've got friends all over the world. And stay safe, be smart. Damn right. Fanboys and fangirls unite. And with that being said, Short Box Nation, that is the end of our episode. Thank you guys so much for tuning in.

56:22
And joining us today, a big thank you to Thomas Tenney for his time and those awesome stories he shared. Big shout out to Ben over at Gotham City Limit for inspiring this episode. And of course, thank you to all the Short Box patrons for your support and contributions. If you're interested in becoming a Short Box patron yourself in exchange for bonus episodes and merch, well, check us out at patreon.com slash the Short Box to see what we have to offer. We're hoping to be back to a regular recording schedule come first week of April. We're...

56:51
planning to do a artist spotlight episode on Frank Rosetta as voted by the Short Box patrons. In the meantime, follow us across social media at the Short Box Jack to see what we got going on and stay up to date of everything that we are planning. Until then, stay safe, stay healthy, and look out for one another. Peace.

57:10
Peace!